Any plans for creating a Linux version of Newsbin

While it isn't officially supported, we have many users who successfully run NewsBin under Linux with a Windows emulator (Wine is the most popular). This forum exists for you Linux guys to share your experience getting NewsBin running on Linux as well as report any strangeness that we may or may not be able to fix. DThor is the resident expert.

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Any plans for creating a Linux version of Newsbin

Postby jrochet » Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:23 am

I'm sure this is in the forums about a million times, but the forums are huge and I couldn't dedicate hours to trying to search for this question.

I know it works fine in Wine, but I'd like to have a straight up Linux version. I'd even be willing to donate $$ to get the project up and running, as would tons of others I'm sure.

Thanks.
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Postby Quade » Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:36 am

I've considered it. The level of effort and the failure of other commercial Linux apps has put me off. That and the fact it works fine under wine suggests it's not worth doing.
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Postby DThor » Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:34 pm

I'm not sure you'll find tons of others willing to cough up cash for it. I got Tux as my avatar and frankly it seems like make-work to me. Probably this is because Quade is just one person and I'd frankly rather see auto-rar taken to completion than a linux port. That's just me, though.

I can't claim to knowing Quade extremely well, but what I do know of him, there is definitely a breaking point in terms of cash offers that will make him drop whatever he's doing and get on something, stat. I know I would, anyway. I suspect we're talking about a lot of money, though. :)

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Postby Quade » Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:55 pm

Dthor, you know my taste in porn, I'd say that means you know alot about me.
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Postby Saint1911 » Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:19 pm

I of course haven't seen the NewsBin source, but I would wager that it would be reasonably simple (few hours work at most when it works in wine) to just link it against wine with the winemaker
then Linux people would have a "binary" that would work most places and not just on some versions of wine and if they have the correct libraries and whatnot.
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Postby richy99 » Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:16 pm

DThor wrote: I got Tux as my avatar DT


and i have his best friend, the bsd daemon :D
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Postby Quade » Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:10 pm

Saint, it was never clear how that was supposed to worked. I've looked at it off and on. I'm unclear on the GPL status of it all too.
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Postby Saint1911 » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:18 pm

It's LGPL, that means your allowed to use it with your proprietary code aslong as you do not make any changes to the winemaker code to make your program work, also in any release notes pertaining to any program linked against lgpl code you must provide a link to the original source code of the lgpl program you used.
So basically aslong as you only have to make changes in your own code to make stuff work you can distribute it, now the parralels software they made changes in wined3d code and did not distribute the changed source with their parralels software, thats why the wine guys wanted to contact them, and they just recently got the code in question for review - the wine guys are trying to avoid a lawsuit.
http://wiki.winehq.com/Parallels
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Postby newsraider » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:16 pm

a linux version would be nice, but since it works so well through wine not that big of a deal. i also wonder what percentage of newsbin users are using linux?
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Postby richy99 » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:22 pm

newsraider wrote:a linux version would be nice, but since it works so well through wine not that big of a deal. i also wonder what percentage of newsbin users are using linux?


very small i would have thought
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Postby newsraider » Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:23 pm

considering the amount of posts in the Linux section of the forum i would guess that to.
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Postby Quade » Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:10 pm

I think there have been 2 downloads of the 64 bit version too...

Lucky for me, it's a single switch to change from 32 to 64.
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Postby richy99 » Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:27 pm

Quade wrote:I think there have been 2 downloads of the 64 bit version too...

Lucky for me, it's a single switch to change from 32 to 64.


huge demand for it then ;)
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Postby Zeno » Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:35 pm

I really woudl like to have a Linux native version of newsbinpro (or any other good binary newsreader). Fact of the matter is that Linux doesn't have a decent binary newsreader meaning less competition for newsbinpro.

On the other hand competition on the Windows marketplace is fierce (with Grabit, Newsleecher etc.). I think it's an opportunity one should grasp. Currently I run Grabit with Wine and I don't see a reason why I should pay for a product that doesn't support my platform.
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Postby DThor » Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:01 pm

I would take issue with the number of dollars waiting for snatching up from Linux usenet downloaders. I don't think there's that many interested in coughing up money.

Anyway, you do know Newsbin runs fine in Linux through wine, right? You're allowed to have up to 3 installs with your key, so it's totally legit and keeps the Newsbin boys happy.

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Postby newsraider » Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:05 pm

i agree that newsbin would dominate the linux platform if they had a version for it. i've tried alot of linux usenet programs and didn't have much luck. newsbin does run very well in wine though. there are some things here and there that don't work right, but not enough to make me switch to something else.
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Postby newsraider » Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:07 pm

you know the only pay linux program that does well that i know of is nero linux.
i see alot of people using that. yeah most linux folks like the free thing :)
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Postby Zeno » Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:10 pm

DThor wrote:I would take issue with the number of dollars waiting for snatching up from Linux usenet downloaders. I don't think there's that many interested in coughing up money.

Anyway, you do know Newsbin runs fine in Linux through wine, right? You're allowed to have up to 3 installs with your key, so it's totally legit and keeps the Newsbin boys happy.

DT


Well it doesn't work fine for me. It crashes a lot and I can't close the message of the day. And if I go the Wine route I rather use Grabit, Xnews or altbinz than cough up $35 for an unsupported program. I don't use Windows therefor I am more than happy with just one key.

I think it depends on the effort it takes to compile newsbinpro for Linux if it is worth it. If it takes more than a year I certainly say that it isn't worth it.
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Postby DThor » Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:27 pm

you know the only pay linux program that does well that i know of is nero linux. i see alot of people using that.


Nero linux is crap on a stick. It's inflexible, and offers precisely nothing more and significantly less than k3b, which is free. I'm not sure there's a "lot" of users, although I guess it depends on how you define that.

I think it depends on the effort it takes to compile newsbinpro for Linux if it is worth it.


A lot. It's not a switch for the recompiler, it's major decisions about what you're going to develop in. There's all sorts of stuff that comes with VC, and that doesn't exist on Linux. Quade would have to choose and develop for an entirely different set of widgets.

Shame you've been having trouble with wine. Honestly, I use it every day. You might want to throw up some info on what exactly your problems have been, and what environment you've been running in.

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Postby newsraider » Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:55 pm

have you tried nero 3? i've been starting to use it of late over k3b and works well i think. the main reason for the switch is because i use xfce and people in forums tell me to keep it light i should stay away from kde and gnome apps. but it reminds me of nero 5 or 6 in windows very simple. also nero is suppose to have blue ray support and k3b doesn't. i am looking in to buying a blue ray burner in a couple months, so it's a need of course.
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Postby DThor » Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:56 am

I understand if it's important to you to run an extremely lightweight desktop then that tends to lock you out of running a huge number of apps freely available on Linux, and yup, k3b is a KDE app. I have tried Nero 3, yes(v2 was literally unusable IMHO) and while I find on the surface it's sort of like a windows nero 'lite', when it came right down to it in the real world usage there were isos that it wouldn't burn, I'd switch over to k3b - no problems. Just for that to happen once is enough for me to be appalled considering one is free and the other isn't. I have no need for blueray so yup, thats another plus for you. I'd be surprised if there wasn't blueray support in k3b soon enough, though.

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Postby newsraider » Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:03 pm

haven't run in to any burning problems yet on nero, although i have only been using it for a couple months now. there really isn't any gnome or kde apps that i miss. there are so many programs to choose from out there, you can always find something you like.

browser - firefox
email - thunderbird
mp3 - exaile
video -vlc
burning - nero
photo edit- gimp
image viewer - mirage
open office suite.

i don't really need anything else.

yeah im sure it's just a matter of time before k3b has blue ray support.
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Postby xlcus » Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:03 pm

Zeno wrote:Well it doesn't work fine for me. It crashes a lot and I can't close the message of the day.

Which version of Wine are you using?

I had the same kind of instability problems as you until I upgraded from the packaged version of Wine in Ubuntu Feisty to the latest Wine 0.9.44

With Wine 0.9.44 Newsbin seems rock solid on my machine. I haven't had a single crash since I upgraded.

And yes, the MOTD bug is still there, but you can close the window by clicking on the close icon rather than clicking on the bottom-centre button.
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Postby jackshorter » Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:13 pm

did someone say linux version of newsBIN Image link not allowed for unregistered users
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Postby Quade » Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:36 am

When I switch to a Linux desktop, there'll be a Linux version of Newsbin. Of course I'm not planning to make the switch so, there's no telling when it'll happen. Windows is just such a good user experience that I really have no desire to switch. If XP ever becomes unusable, I may change my mind.
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Postby jackshorter » Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:56 am

i think MS already has that unusable issue covered for you, they call it Vista (note bias here)

seriously, though i certainly understand.
if only we knew why then maybe we could be more productive
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Postby newsraider » Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:58 pm

Quade wrote:Windows is just such a good user experience that I really have no desire to switch.


what part of linux isn't good user wise? i guess it can depend on what you are doing, but for me everything is so easy. i am doing so much less work keeping windows running smooth and getting more work done on linux.
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Postby Quade » Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:46 pm

X windows sucks plain and simple. It's slow and on my near bleeding edge hardware, unreliable. It's not an OS I can just install and use. It needs constant messing with. Options are spread all over the place with no real logical setup. There are probably 4 different control panels that seem to change the same settings. Media players aren't as good. Music players aren't as good. Programming environments are ancient.

My biggest gripe is that video performance blows.

Windows just works. It doesn't get in my way and I'm productive. Well, that was true till Vista. I've programmed on Linux and ran Linux servers too. I've installed Gentoo 20 times by hand so, I know my way around linux. You get what you pay for. It's good for something that's free. As a server it's great.

I don't get your "keep running smoothly" comment. I don't have to dick with my windows box at all. It just works.
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Postby DThor » Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:55 am

It's an endless argument. I'm constantly having to dick with windows because of what I have to do on it occasionally. I never have to screw with linux because I use it daily and know how to set it up for what I'm doing(and I'm in VFX so being able to screen video is critical). For example, installing a particular app(which has lots of small files) takes about 3 minutes on windows and even after uninstalling leaves taint everywhere that I would spend even more time cleaning up if I cared. On linux the same app installs/uninstalls completely cleanly in about 10 seconds. You're crippled with the registry on windows, it's probably the single most annoying thing about it(next to mem and task management). In the end it's what you need it for that counts, and that differs for all of us. The get what you pay for thing, while I almost always agree with it on principle, is different here. There's an upfront cost for Linux if you're just starting to use it, but once you have it running it runs *better* than windows, for what I use it for. There's a cost for everything, but it's not fanboy-ism that has me make that comment - it's the real world experience of having tried both.

Having said that, I still like windows for what I use it for(games and inet), and linux in the same way.

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Postby Quade » Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:08 am

I like the registry. Always did. Functionally it's no different than the /etc/ folder. Might be easier to hide things there I guess. The registry isn't the the problem, the lack of user level security so, anyone can write to the registry is the problem. Imagine a world writeable /etc and that's the registry.
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Postby DThor » Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:49 am

Naw, I'd never equate the two in the real world. Apart from system level things like services or the odd big networked app like apache, /etc isn't dumped into by apps very often - it's *read*, mind you, but in the real world dumping to etc just isn't as common. The whole notion of the volume of stuff dumped into registry is why I hate it. It's bloated, fragile(that one file dies, there goes your system) and will always be a huge security risk.

Again, I'm not saying this as linux vs windows. It's just something I hate about windows. There's plenty of things that drive me nuts about linux. I hate the politics - the good thing about windows is that it's a dictatorship. You choose whether or not to live in that dictatorship, but they keep all their usage arguments behind closed doors for better or for worse. You don't have "desktop wars" being fought in public and users constantly sniping at one another.

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Postby Rumpy » Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:11 am

I just made the switch from Vista 64 (yes I was one of those 2 that downloaded the 64 bit version ;) to Kubuntu 7.10. I haven't booted my Windows partition in about a week so far.

I've been waiting for a release of Linux that was usable. This one actually is for me. If you haven't checked it out Quade, you should.

My wireless works, which is a first. My nVidia card is supported out of the box (nVidia 8400m GT), which is also a first. I just enabled the Restricted Driver, rebooted, and OpenGL was working. That and I can read/write my local calendar to iGoogle, which I LOVE.

I agree a Linux native version of NewsBin would be very nice, and given that I tried a few of the free newsreaders on the Linux side, I think NewsBin would clean the floor. There is simply nothing else that competes from what I've seen. The current Linux crop of readers is amateurish at best.

I just wish Wine would work with the 64 bit install NewsBin. It tells me I can only install the 32 bit version.

The MOTD message can be turned off in your 'Advanced' options. It's less irritating under Wine. Shift Select is another problem. It literally takes 15 minutes to select a few thousand posts. Select all is instant though, as is Mark All Read.

The only other glitch is the Create Folder function. You have to set it to the legacy method (ala version 4) which I prefer anyway. Once you do that, you can create folders just like before.
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Postby DThor » Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:52 am

Yah, that slow selection showed up at a specific release of Newsbin and damned if I can figure out what triggered it. As Quade will say, it's a problem with wine, not Newsbin, because whatever he's using works perfectly well on windows, the wine implementation is lacking for some reason. And yeah, MAR is the answer. ;)

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Postby Rumpy » Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:55 am

Yeah. I don't want to imply that there's something wrong with NewsBin. These are all WINE issues.
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Postby Quade » Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:18 am

You still see it with 5.40?
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Postby Rumpy » Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:52 am

Hmm..I didn't know a new release was out. I turned of MOTD because of the error. I'll download it and try it.

Which issue are you referring to when your asking if 5.40 fixes it?
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Postby DThor » Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:55 am

Yah, it's still there in the beta.

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Postby Rumpy » Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:15 pm

Could you think about changing the MOTD to allow the browser to maybe use some sort of GET command to pull it local so the IE dependency isn't there?
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Postby sdavmor » Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:52 pm

Rumpy wrote:Could you think about changing the MOTD to allow the browser to maybe use some sort of GET command to pull it local so the IE dependency isn't there?


That would be nice, especially since I don't want IE active via Wine on my Ubuntu box. If I could have an option that would let me plugin the browser I want to use (Firefox, Seamonkey, etc), I'd be pleased.
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Postby wumpus » Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:51 pm

Building a new computer recently with Win 7 x86-64 has made me annoyed enough with MS that I swore I would never pay MS a cent from now on.

I've used Linux for various things for about 15 years now, but I never completely switched over to it at home because there are a few Windows apps that: I'm used to, don't run well under WINE, and haven't been ported to Linux, and I haven't found full alternatives to them for Linux.

I did try Newsbin recently on Linux using WINE and also Crossover Office 8.

I guess it was more or less usable, but fonts were pretty bad, and the UI was slow.

I would certainly like for there to be a native Linux version of Newsbin, with a winelib-based version as my 2nd choice. Or maybe by the time I switch (within the next 2-3 years I would think) Newsbin and WINE will work together without the glitches I noticed recently.

I would even be willing to pay extra to get access to a Linux or winelib version. I buy software for the Mac, Windows, and I have bought it for Linux too. (I bought a license for ActiveState Komodo a while back.)

I got a netbook for my wife, and it runs Ubuntu. She loves it, and likes Ubuntu better than Windows because it has been more stable for her than Windows was. She is not at all a "power user" or "computer geek," so I think Linux has arrived for the average desktop computer user.

As for Linux applications succeeding or not, it depends on the circumstances and the pricing.

Oracle has done pretty well selling licenses for Linux versions of their software.

Some other software just hasn't been enough better (or else low-priced enough) that people wanted to switch from free alternative. Nero is a good example. It's actually inferior to K3b IMO. I don't know why anyone would buy Nero for Linux as it is right now. (I guess not wanting to install and run all the KDE bits and pieces is a reason, but most people will have no problem accepting the slight hit on resources that this makes.)

Ok, so that was pretty long-winded, :-) It all boils down to, "I use Linux, will use it even more in the future, and I want Newsbin to work as well on Linux as it does on Windows. I'm even willing to pay for that privilege."
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Postby DThor » Sun Apr 11, 2010 9:22 am

I would check out sdavmor's post here. I've been using NB on wine for many years and it works fine. Yes, some releases do have the odd graphic glitch but really, it's a very questionable argument to want a native version for linux. For example, a short while ago I had an annoying problem where NB wouldn't shut down properly, it left the wine processes hanging, needed manually killing. I updated just a few point releases to the latest wine...and it fixed it. I'm almost always running the latest/greatest internal pre-beta releases of NB and it almost always runs fine. I'm unsure what you mean by the fonts being 'bad' - for me they look absolutely fine on SUSE and from what I read in the post above and other comments, it looks the same.

That's not to question you've had issues, but I would point out that wine is constantly changing. I tend to find a release that works on my install, and leave it unless issues come up. Otherwise, I'll upgrade it. Of course, all these issues are wine issues, but I realize you're not questioning that, you're just talking about the end user experience.

FWIW, I've always found a recent build of wine tends to work best with NB over crossover office or other variants. YRMY.

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