newsbin.com

by **TravUK** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:00 pm

Recently I have been failing to download almost anything from virgin media and my log is full of the following errors.

[23:52:26] Level: ERROR MODULE=Decode Block, MSG=Bad YEnc CRC: somefile.r18

I've been successfully using both Virgin & NewsBin for about 2 years, so I'm at a bit of a loss as to whats going on.

Having read through other posts, I've disabled the firewall and removed the virus checker, but thats had no effect. Not that they should, even if they probe a file, they shouldnt modify it.

Does anyone have a definitive explanation for the cause?

Thanks.

by **Quade** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:15 pm

Does anyone have a definitive explanation for the cause?

If the files are good on the server then the problem is your PC or network.

The way I'd trouble-shoot this is try another server temporarily and see if the problem goes away.

If it's the same, I'd try using SSL to a news server that supports it.

If you have a friend with a laptop, you could try downloading at your house with his laptop and see if he gets CRC errors too.

It's no different than trouble-shooting something wrong with your car. You use the process of elimination.

by **TravUK** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:20 pm

If I switch to another server (astraweb) the problem goes away, without changing anything else, so I'm really at a loss.

Virgin doesnt support SSL or any port other than 119.

by **Quade** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:22 pm

Really? At a loss? You solved the problem ALREADY.

by **TravUK** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:25 pm

I have?

I still cant download anything from Virgin and I still dont know why, so maybe I'm being dumb but I'm not sure what the solution is.

by **TravUK** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:48 pm

Ok, so I've just installed NB on another machine and I'm getting the same errors from Virgin. Which either means the files are being corrupted at the Virgin end, or I have exactly the same problem on both machines.

But if the problem is being caused at the Virgin end, I'm surprised I'm the only one on here reporting a problem.

It would also mean I'm a bit screwed and cant use their servers anymore, it would have been cool if NewsBin went to the fills server when it encountered CRC failure and retried it from there.

by **Quade** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:10 pm

Some posting software just posts bad CRC's even though the posts are fine. I found it's better to simply note and ignore the bad crc errors because when you're using a decent server, they're rare. It still could be your PC but, you claim to have checked everything. Simple answer is to just use Astra.

Since Astra works, that means the problem has to be either the server or something messing with data in port 119 TCP.

by **Badcar** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:19 pm

I don't know what the issue is with Virgin and why only a few people are reporting it.

I don't have access to the text newsgroup 'virginmedia.support.usenet' but I believe the issue is being discussed there.

It's reported on other boards, but only by a few people:

Newsleecher board topic # 19547
The topic starter blames a 'misconfigured transparent proxy somewhere' (that's just a guess).
Says also getting errors on the fill server (Octanews) unless using SSL.

NZBMatrix board topic # 18779 (maybe, but no one mentions yenc CRC errors in that topic)

United-Forums.co.uk board topic # 164285
Says Virgin is his ISP, but doesn't say which news server he's using.
Turning on SSL fixed the problem with that news server.

In the 'newshosting.support' newsgroup, Newshosting Support advises turning on SSL and blames 'proxy servers'.
<Xns9C57660B019D3supportnewshostingco@209.197.12.14>

So look in 'virginmedia.support.usenet' private newsgroup where I can't go and tell us what the discussion is about.

by **TravUK** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:08 am

Yep, have found quite a few people suffering from the problem, some worse than others. Some may not even know they have the problem as many files are recoverable with the pars, but I seem to have gone above the threshold and about 2% of my posts are coming in corrupted, which is leaving me with 1 or 2 missing blocks per part of the rar file.

After investigating a bit more I find that the errors on any one file are different if you download them a second time. So it does appear to be some kind of corruption during transmission. Which means the CRC check is doing its job, but sadly NewsBin doesn't retry the download when it gets a corrupted message. :cry:

In the meantime I'll use my astraweb account, but the whole point of paying extra for Virgin was to be able to use their servers.

Virgin are blaming the problem on their hosting company (they dont host the usenet servers directly themselves)

by **Quade** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:33 am

Virgin's probably testing some tools to monitor all of your downloads and they're not working correctly...yet.

by **TravUK** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:03 am

There is a rumor that Virgin is trialing CView, the deep packet snooping tool, which might be to blame.

by **TravUK** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:28 pm

Other Virgin users are reporting that they can get around this by enabling Strict YEnc checking in NewsBin Pro, but I cant find this option in 5.54, can someone point me in the right place?

Thanks.

by **Quade** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:58 pm

You have to use an older version for that, I removed it.

by **itimpi** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:34 pm

All the Strict yEnc setting used to do was fail a download if there was a yEnc error. It did not improve the chances of the download being successful. However if one has PAR2 files it is normally less effort to simply repair the damaged part of the file which is why Newsbin now only gives the message as a warning but does not treat it as a download failure.

by **TravUK** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:36 pm

This is exactly what I need, is a retry on a YEnc error. I'm getting YEnc errors because it was corrupted in transmission, which is what the CRC is intended for.

The Par2 files are no good because the number of corrupted blocks is slightly higher than there are par2 recovery blocks.

So, back to my original question, how do I turn it on? Or has it been removed recently, it was available around the 5.40 versions, but I cant find an old copy to install :-(

All I want is a retry on error, it seems simple enough.

by **Quade** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:42 pm

Or you could turn off the broken server and use the good one... You have a solution, you just choose not to use it. Flat fee server is what, $12 US a month?

by **TravUK** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:47 pm

Sure, I get what you're saying. And that's what I'm doing, but for the sake of treating a CRC error for what it is, that's costing me (and potentially other Virgin customers) an extra $180 a year on top of my already expensive internet service.

Anyone who'd just been told it was gonna cost them extra would be resistant to the idea :roll:

by **TravUK** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:20 pm

I've gone back to version 5.34 and enabled the strict Yenc option and that works a charm.

by **possamai** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 1:59 pm

have you considered contacting virgin support and asking them what the fuck they are doing with their news-servers?

another way could be to dump virgin and move to astraweb..
I use usenetserver which is pretty good as well...
There's a lot of usenet providers, if virgin screws up, just move...

by **itimpi** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 2:05 pm

I would agree. Although I have Virgin as my ISP I do not use their News servers as they have never been that good. Instead I get an excellent service from Astraweb.

by **possamai** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 2:07 pm

Ah, Virgin is an ISP... that explains it :-)

Not the best name for an ISP I think..
Kind of says: HEY WE HAVE NO EXPERIENCE YET!!!

by **itimpi** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 2:47 pm

Technically it is Virgin Media.

It is one of the Virgin group of companies that originated with Richard Branson (e.g. Virgin Atlantic, Virgin Travel, Virgin Trains, etc).

In the UK, Virgin is one of the better known brand names.

by **TravUK** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:41 pm

Virgin Media do provide an excellent 50Mbit internet service, and have, until recently provided an incredibly fast and reliable usenet server via Highwinds.

I use AstraWeb as my fills and backdate server, but as an engineer myself, I hate leaving problems unsolved.

Now that its working again though, I am thinking it may well be time to switch over to AstraWeb and SSL full time.

by **itimpi** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 4:25 pm

TravUK wrote:Now that its working again though, I am thinking it may well be time to switch over to AstraWeb and SSL full time.

Particularily with the rumour that Virgin are going to be use Deep Packet Inspection technology to try and detect those downloading copyright material. Using a server external to the UK plus SSL should avoid any issues in that area for the forseeable future.

by **theidiamin** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:48 pm

I use Virgin as my ISP but would never, ever, rely on them for either e-mail or newsgroup access. Have bin bit twice already both ways.

Recommend Google Mail for e-mail, (with Thunderbird 3) and Newsdemon for Usenet.

Latter has good retention, low cost for premium service and supplies NewsRover as free download. Thats lousy by the side of Newsbin I know but nevertheless very handy for searching.

Tony Cook

by **hugzzz** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:10 am

I use VM as my ISP and I'm also very active on the unofficial support forum (cableforum.co.uk)

VM's own news-servers are actually supplied and hosted by Highwinds, they've got better recently but have always had problems. Nothing major though reported in the main official or unofficial forums

Cview I believe isn't active YET and hasn't been trialed. Due to BT getting jumped on due to thier phorm trials that went on without users being informed (they have to with UK law) I don;t think that VM will make the same mistake.

Me? I use Astraweb and newsbin of course

Kymmy

by **itimpi** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:42 am

I had heard that the trial was running, but because the data was anonymized they had bypassed the need to inform users. That would allow Virgin to test the technology and also see the scale of the problem. However as I understood it the initial trials target peer-to-peer protocols and not (at the moment) NNTP.

The way the government is talking, ISP's may soon be REQUIRED to track what users are doing :!:

by **hugzzz** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:27 am

Hmmm, nothing that says yes the trial has started and nothing to say it hasn't. There's a good report on the Register

You are right in suggesting that they're looking for P2P data only but that probably won't stop them DPI'ing all data and just selecting P2P to log and colate.

All this though should be transparent so I'll be suprised if it effects nntp at all and if it did it would be more than just thier own server (highwinds servers actually) effected

Highwinds have never been a problem free provider though

There's a good detailed discussion about Cview and VM happening HERE

by **TravUK** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:39 pm

Whatever was causing the corruption has gone away as mysteriously as it appeared. Lasted for about a week.

by **Quade** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:58 pm

You are right in suggesting that they're looking for P2P data only but that probably won't stop them DPI'ing all data and just selecting P2P to log and colate.

I would never assume this. ISP's know about usenet as do all the other interested parties.

by **hugzzz** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:52 pm

Quade wrote:
You are right in suggesting that they're looking for P2P data only but that probably won't stop them DPI'ing all data and just selecting P2P to log and colate.

I would never assume this. ISP's know about usenet as do all the other interested parties.

Yep, it seems that all ISP's are starting to go that route..

BUT I also have it on good authority that the data isn't routed through the servers but is actually split using optical taps so again the trial should be totally transparent to the routed path

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